Question: Should I do both squats and deadlifts in the same workout, or should I alternate between them?
Answer: Whether you should perform both squats and deadlifts in the same workout depends on how intensely you are doing them, how many other exercises you are performing, and how much volume you can effectively recover from.
After performing the first of these, are you able to consistently perform the second exercise in the same workout with a high intensity of effort?
Are you making steady progress on both exercises?
Do your legs feel like they are recovering sufficiently in the days following your workout?
If the answer to any of these is no, you should only perform one or the other, but not both in the same workout.
Most beginners will have no trouble performing both squats and deadlifts in the same full-body workout because they have not yet learned to push themselves hard enough for this to be excessive, however as you learn to train more intensely you may find you have difficulty maintaining a high level of effort for more than one compound leg exercise, or in some cases more than a few compound exercises total. Also, as you get bigger and stronger and are working more muscle mass, more intensely, the demands on recovery increase.
If you find you are able to perform the first of these in your workout with a high intensity of effort and make steady progress, but have difficulty getting through the second or make little or no progress on it, you may need to cut one of them, alternate between them, or cut other exercises to avoid overtraining. This applies to other exercises, too. Minimally, you need to perform enough exercise in your program (but not every workout) to effectively work all of the major muscle groups, but you should not perform so many exercises in each workout that you can not perform each of them with a high level of intensity.
I usually have new clients perform both in the same workout when starting out, then as they get stronger and learn to train more intensely and need a reduction in volume I either split the exercises up into two shorter full-body workouts or into an upper body workout and a lower body workout. Because there is a lot of overlap between squats and deadlifts I usually have clients perform stiff-legged deadlifts instead of regular deadlifts if they are performed in the same workout. As an alternative, you could perform regular deadlifts and sissy squats. For specific examples of this read High Intensity Workouts.
It helps to think of squats and deadlifts as points on a continuum of compound leg exercises, with sissy squats on the left with little or no hip extension and a lot of knee extension, and stiff-legged deadlifts on the right with little or no knee extension and a lot of hip extension. Both squats and deadlifts are pretty close to the middle of this continuum, with squats a little closer to the left and deadlifts a little closer to the right. Pairing one of these exercises in the middle of the continuum with one far down the opposite end minimizes overlap.
Another option is to substitute a less systemically demanding simple exercise for one of the compound exercises, alternating between workouts. For example, instead of squats and deadlifts, you could perform squats and leg curls or hip extensions on one workout, and deadlifts and leg extensions on the other.
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Hi Drew, As you know, I don’t do a lot of FB posting these days, however, I just wanted you to know that I NEVER miss your e-mails (I’m subscribed). I ALWAYS read and enjoy your posts and blog topics. You are definitely under-appreciated for all the valuable and informed insight you provide for FREE. Keep it coming.
Franny
Hey Franny,
Thanks, and as long as people keep reading I’ll keep it coming!
I really like and agree with the idea of viewing the variety of hip and thigh movements on the continuum sissy squats – squats – sumo deadlifts – regular deadlifts – SLDL .
Hey Don,
It has been a useful tool for programming. I am planning to diagram this using joint measurements from these exercises and will post the graphic here when I do.
What about using a trap bar in lieu of barbell squats and deads?
Hey Johnny,
I highly recommend using a trap (diamond) or shrug (hexagonal) bar for deadlifts because they are easier to maintain your grip on and you don’t have to drag a bar up and down your shins. You can squat with a trap bar, too, but grip fatigue may become a limiting factor when using a trap bar for both squats and deadlifts or stiff-legged deadlifts in the same workout.
Hi Drew,
I do multiple sets of squats, and multiple sets of deadlifts in the same workout. Both exercises are done in a pyramid fashion, 2-3 warm-ups, 2 max 4-6 reps, 1 lighter 8-12 reps.
I’ve never figured out how to do either exercise in a HIT fashion, i.e. performing only 1 set to work the muscles sufficiently before my form breaks down . Any suggestions?
I don’t feel comfortable doing either exercise deliberately slowly, instead I do them at a speed which feels natural (about 2 secs up, 1 sec down). And so a single set approaching my max takes only about 20 seconds, and I can’t imagine this being a sufficient workout!
I have no problem doing both exercises with this volume in the same workout.
Thanks!
Hey Ste,
It is not comfortable doing those exercises slowly, it is brutally hard, which is why most people who do it that way eventually have to perform one set of each of them in separate workouts. I have never had anyone I have taught to do these exercises want to perform a second set, and if they did it right the first time they wouldn’t be able to any way.
Consider that volume isn’t about sets and reps, it’s about local muscular and systemic stress, which has more to do with time under load than how many times the weight goes up and down. If the total number of reps performed during your work sets average around twenty at a 2/1 cadence you’re cumulative time under load for the exercise is only a minute. If you perform a single set of six to ten repetitions at a 4/4 cadence not only will your time under load will average higher than that, your work to rest ratio will also be much higher because all of the work is performed nonstop, rather than spaced out over a much longer time.
I agree.
I have never been able to train squats and reads in a HIT fashion as I feel these exercises cause my CNS, core and grip to give out way before the target muscles.
I take a similar approach to you, I do moderate volume and don’t go to MMF.
Hey Lewis,
Your CNS is not the limiting factor. See the last paragraph and my responses in the comments section of Q&A: Criticisms of Training to Failure.
Drew,
I have been doing Kratos BW for 15 months and I also like to deadlift.
Having said that, I’d like to make a deadlift (only) routine and eliminate the other exercises, the deadlift being a full body exercise. I work out at home and have an olympic weight set.
How would I approach this? Protocol ?
Thanks Bruce
Hey Bruce,
While the deadlift involves many of the major muscle groups, it is not equally effective for training all of them, so your program should include other exercises to more effectively train the muscle groups not worked as hard in the deadlift. You could alternate between one workout of only deadlifts or deadlifts and a few exercises for smaller muscle groups like the calves and neck, and another workout with upper body pushing and pulling exercises.
For general guidelines for high intensity training workout design and performance I recommend reading High Intensity Workouts.
Good piece, as always. Long gone are the days I could squat and deadlift in a single workout. In my teens and 20’s it was a non-issue. But over time, with increasing poundages and intensity levels I couldn’t fathom it.
Keep up the great articles!
Thanks Lifter,
If done correctly the squat and deadlift are both brutally hard exercises, and most advanced trainees should perform them in separate workouts.
“…and how much volume you can effectively recover from.”
That’s the key, and obviously different for each individual. At 49 years old, and never having great recovery ability even when I was younger, I simply can’t recover properly and consistently progress doing both squats (or leg press) and deadlifts on the same workout (or even the same week for that matter). Currently I’m alternating between the leg press and trap-bar deadlifts from week to week, and continuing to get stronger on both exercises practically every workout. When I was trying to do both during the same week, I constantly felt run-down and achy and always hit a plateau after a month or two.
The reason that I choose to do leg press (Nautilus Nitro) over squats is that I happen to agree with Bill DeSimone that squats are inherently dangerous for your spine over the long-run, especially once you get over 300 lbs or so.
http://congruentexercise.blogspot.com/2014/10/avoiding-tragic-accident-in-gym.html
I realize this position is controversial and goes against conventional weight-training wisdom, but DeSimone’s point that “the bones and muscles of the spine aren’t suited for top-heavy loads” seems rock solid to me. The risk just doesn’t seem worth the small benefit to doing squats over leg presses to me, even though I acknowledge that a hard set of squats is definitely more taxing than a hard set of leg presses…
Roger,
Bill is absolutely correct, but the problem is not the squat itself but the way most people perform it. Done in the conventional manner it is possible for most people to progress to a weight that is potentially harmful to the spine. However, if the squat is performed using a slow cadence, with a few second hold at parallel followed by an extremely slow start, and performing the upper turnaround while you still have at least a ten to fifteen degree bend in the knee avoiding lockout, most people have to cut their weight by half or more.
The problem with conventional squat performance is it is geared towards lifting as much weight as possible, rather than placing as much of a demand on the hip and thigh muscles as possible. If you perform the squat in a manner that makes it harder, you require much less weight.
I agree, I no longer perform squats or deadlifts due to performing exercises poorly with extreme weights in my 20’s (i.e. 500lb squats for six reps and 500lb deadlifts for five reps) using high volume method because we all followed arnolds program twice a week…..dumb dumb dumb, these exercises along with digging trenches with a shovel installing sprinkler systems and swinging an ax splitting wood for work has given me back injuries that will last a lifetime……now that I am smarter and wiser at 50, I no longer perform these exercises and prefer the horizontal leg press, I can perform this exercise in a slow controlled manner once a week and feel the muscles working. I feel better and stronger than I have in years.
Drew, sorry if I missed this somewhere, how do you squat & deadlift HIT, do you hold your breath like in power lifting? Thanks for all you do! Joe
Hey Joe,
No, I do not hold my breath when doing either. Doing so is neither necessary nor recommended when performing these for the purpose of exercise (as opposed to demonstrating strength). For more specific guidelines on performance see High Intensity Workouts.
If Time Under Load is the most important factor, and if I don’t have very strong legs yet, could I just do a really long wall-sit rather a squat? Alternatively, could I do super slow, super deep squats with body weight only & still see improvement in leg strength and development? THANKS!
Hey Ashlee,
Intensity of effort is more important than time under load, however I recommend choosing an exercise you can perform for at least a minute on average. The amount of resistance required to achieve momentary muscular failure around that time is enough to effectively stimulate improvements in muscular strength and size without being so heavy that you are unable to maintain proper form. The longer time under load is also beneficial for cardiovascular and metabolic adaptations.
If you are unable to perform a squat in strict form using only the bar for around a minute (about six to ten reps at a 4/4 cadence) bodyweight squats are an effective alternative, and through manipulation of leverage and timing you can make bodyweight squats as challenging as you need them to be. A squat hold or wall sit would also be effective, but if you’re able to hold it for a very long time, more than two minutes, you should perform it while holding dumbbells, or make yourself a TSC hip belt squat platform.
Makes sense. I think I have the muscular strength to squat well, but my knees always scare me. They make crunchy noises all the time – it doesn’t hurt & I pay attention to my alignment, but still… I really appreciate your help, Drew – thank you!!
Hey Ashlee,
If you’re not experiencing pain the “crunchy noise” you’re hearing, called crepitus, is usually nothing to worry about. However, it can be an indicator of joint issues, so if this has been going on or continues for a while it wouldn’t hurt to have your doctor look at it. If the noise or sensation bothers you I recommend either performing the exercise isometrically or warming your knees up first with a set of leg curls followed by leg extensions.
Wow, I didn’t know doing those exercises as a warm-up would help. I always stayed away from extensions because I was told that they were bad for my knees & would worsen the “crunch”.
Hey Ashlee,
If you perform leg extensions correctly they are perfectly safe for your knees. The real problem is not the exercise, but the fast, sloppy way most people use them.
Hey Drew. I’ve been doing some research to find a perfect beginner workout to put on size and I’ve stumbled on a full body workout consisting of only compound excercises. As far as building muscle and progressing goes (while being in a calorie surplus) it stated if I could complete 3 sets of 8 reps with good form it was time to increase the weight for that excercise to avoid muscle adaption. This may continue for the next few workouts but if I moved up weight and was only able to complete say 3 sets of 7,7,6 when the target is 8, to keep training with that weight until I reached 3 sets of 8 reps comfortably and without compromising form and then increase the weighting once again to keep stimulating muscle growth. Does that sound right or am I missing something? Here is the workout let me know what you think. Thanks!
Squat 3 sets x 8 reps
Flat bench press 3 x 8
Military press 3 x 8
Deadlift 3 x 8
Chin-up/pull-up 3 x 8
Bent over barbell row – 3 x 8
Hey Erik,
You don’t need to perform three sets of any exercise, and you should not stop an exercise after performing an arbitrary number of repetitions. One properly performed set done to momentary muscular failure using a weight that allows a reasonable number of repetitions at a controlled speed is all you need.
Also, you don’t progress resistance to “avoid muscle adaptation.” Stimulating the body to produce adaptations in the form of strength and size increases and improvements in the supporting factors of functional ability is the goal. You progress resistance to provide overload to stimulate further adaptation. While it might seem like I’m being picky about semantics using correct wording is very important.
Aren’t sissy squats bad for knees? They put stress mostly on quads, with very little hamstring activation. That makes lower leg slide forward in the knee joint and puts great stress on ligaments. With regular squats hamstrings are much more engaged and therefore countering this forward pull and making it easy on ligaments.
Sisy squats can certainly injure your knees if done sloppily but they are safe for someone with normal, healthy knees if done properly . Whether they should be done depends on what you’re trying to accomplish and the other exercises in your workout.
Hi, I am going to leave my gym as I am progressing in exercises I am hurting my self using crap hardware, the only thing I will miss is the Leg press machine.
I will train basic bodyweight exercises and barbell lifts, but I cant perform Squats safely as I don’t have a rack. Would be a deadlift + TSC Squat a proper stimulus for legs?
My once per week routine would be something like this: One set to failure. 4-4 cadence. Tul 45-90 secs.
Deadlift
TSC Squat
ChinUp
Chest Dips
Overhead Press
TSC Neck excercises.
Forearm barbell curl + extension
Thanks.
Hey Alberto,
This would work, but if you want to include dynamic squats you can do them with dumbbells or a shrug bar without the need for a rack.
When deadlifting, do you recommend setting the bar down between reps or stopping just short of setting it down to keep continuous tension?
When deadlifting the bar should touch the floor lightly but not be set down between reps.