Question: In a comment on my recent post on the relative importance of activity and diet for fat loss a reader asked about the difference in results between performing only high intensity training and combining it with low intensity activity like fast walking on off days, and what the effect on appetite might be.
Answer: Adding some low intensity activity on your off days will have little effect on your appetite and would not interfere with recovery and adaptation from your workouts, but it wouldn’t have much of an effect on your body composition either because it burns few calories and does nothing to stimulate increases in lean body mass. Performing moderate rather than low intensity activity would have more of an effect on appetite, but despite burning a little more calories if overdone it can actually cause you to get worse results rather than better.
On page 125 of Living Longer Stronger Ellington Darden compared data from his fat loss studies and Wayne Westcott’s showing the results of ten weeks of diet along with either only high intensity strength training, only “cardio”, or a combination of the two.
The group that performed only “cardio” only lost an average of 3.2 pounds of fat, and lost an average of 0.3 pounds of muscle. The group that performed only strength training on average lost 18.1 pounds of fat and gained 2.4 pounds of muscle. When both strength training and “cardio” were performed, the results were worse. The group that did both only lost an average of 10 pounds of fat and only gained 2 pounds of muscle.
There could be several reasons for this, including failure to adhere to the diet due to increased appetite following “cardio” sessions, or the “cardio” interfering with and compromising the intensity of the workouts, but this has been consistent with my experience with my own clients. Over the years I’ve had a lot of personal training clients who had previously worked out on their own or with another personal trainer doing a combination of strength training and “cardio”. They came to me because they weren’t getting the results they wanted with that approach, and although most were skeptical when I told them to cut out the “cardio” every single client that worked out consistently and followed their diet got better results without it.
I’m not suggesting that people should not be physically active, just that they shouldn’t do it for the sake of burning calories or “cardio” or expect it to make a huge difference in their body composition. If you’re going to do something physical in addition to your workouts do something you enjoy or something that teaches useful skills like martial arts, shooting, or parkour and don’t worry about whether it will improve your general functional ability or body composition; that’s what exercise is for.
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Heard a great phrase that goes along with this: “Chronic Cardio.” As in: take a look at the people who have been running marathons for years. You have pointed this out yourself, Drew, that lifetime runners who don’t include strength training of some kind begin to look not so healthy.
I used to love running and still enjoy tennis and basketball, but I’m under no illusion that the cardio aspect of those activities is an elixir of any kind.
Hey Billy,
I’ve worked with a lot of runners over the years and the ones who’ve been doing it a while but never strength trained are almost always in worse shape than the ones who haven’t. If someone enjoys running I wouldn’t want to take that away from them, but to paraphrase Arthur Jones, it is a very slow, very inefficient way to eventually produce very little in the way of results. They’d be better off if they cut their running way back or stopped altogether and just did proper, high intensity strength training.
Drew, you will find this interesting: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25353081
“Eighty-one sedentary premenopausal women (age: 30.7 ± 7.8 years; height: 164.5 ± 7.4 cm; weight: 68.2 ± 16.4 kg; fat percent: 38.1 ± 8.8) underwent dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry before and after 12 weeks of supervised treadmill walking 3 days per week for 30 minutes at 70% of (Equation is included in full-text article.). Overall, women did not lose body weight or fat mass. However, considerable individual variability was observed for changes in body weight (-11.7 to +4.8 kg) and fat mass (-11.8 to +3.7 kg). Fifty-five women were classified as compensators and, as a group, gained fat mass (25.6 ± 11.1 kg to 26.1 ± 11.3 kg; p < 0.001)."
So, ~70 percent of the women were heavier after 12 weeks of aerobics, apparently due to compensatory reductions in non-exercise physical activity or increases in food intake.
Here's a NYT report on this study: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/exercising-but-gaining-weight/?_r=1
Hey Don,
Thanks for sharing this. It would be interesting for comparison to see this repeated with people in a metabolic ward where adherence to a strict diet could be ensured (based on estimated average daily calorie expenditure before accounting for the additional activity). I still don’t think we’d see significant fat loss, but we probably wouldn’t see as much fat gain either since they wouldn’t be allowed to overeat if the activity increases their appetite.
Yes, that would be interesting, and would clarify how much of the compensation is due to reduction of non-exercise physical activity vs. increased food consumption. Another interesting question is whether any compensatory food consumption is non-intentional due to subtle increases in appetite, vs. intentional as in “I just spent 30 minutes on the treadmill, now I believe I can / deserve to eat more.”
Hey Don,
I suspect a combination of the two. Lots of people still believe working out or being active allows them to overeat without getting fat.
Thanks for this article. I have known for a while the you cannot exercise away a bad diet. I walk my dog mile every morning and I walk over 10K steps per day at work as part of doing my job.
But I know that neither of these is contributing to my body composition. As a matter of
fact all the walking I have to do at work is wearing my feet and legs out.
I have been eating Paleo/Primal for the last three years and reversed pre-diabetes.
I have read Body by Science and started HIT two weeks ago. I can feel that
this is really going to make a difference in my fitness.
Hey Doug,
It’s great you’ve been able to avoid diabetes by eating better and high intensity training will help (strength training improves glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity and the more muscle you have the more space your body has to store glycogen).
It’s good to be physically active for a variety of reasons, burning calories just isn’t one of them. If it were possible to out-exercise a bad diet there would be no fat aerobics instructors, but that’s obviously not the case.
Is’nt cardio for training the heart muscle? especially interval cardio.
Hey Des,
High intensity strength training accomplishes the same thing while also stimulating improvements in all the other general factors of functional ability (muscular strength and endurance, flexibility, bone and connective tissue strength, body composition, etc.), more safely and efficiently.
For more on this I recommend reading Project Total Conditioning.
I know that “Cardio” is bad for you,
But how about combining sprint intervals (aka running HIT) with HIT for strength?
Mark Sisson always recommends adding an occasional sprint session every 7-10 days along with your regular strength workout.
I couldn’t find any reference to this, not by you or in the body by science book.
Hey Omer,
If your goal is improvements in general functional ability/fitness, health, and physical appearance all you need is a proper strength training program. Sprint interval training does not provide any general fitness or health benefits that can not be obtained more safely and efficiently with strength training.
Sprinting is, however, necessary for learning and practicing good running mechanics and improving sprinting skill, so if your profession or a sport you participate in requires sprinting you should include it in your training.
I incorporate interval sprints between my weight training workouts for the very reason you just mentioned, Drew. Working in a federal penitentiary I have to be ready to respond at any given moment to an “officer-needs-assistance” call, which requires running anywhere from 100-400 meters across the facility and still be ready to physically control combative inmates if necessary. While high intensity weight training will always be the core of my workouts, I find that interval sprints help to prepare me for such situations.
Hey Roger,
While I don’t recommend them for exercise since you can obtain all the general physical benefits from a proper strength training program, I do recommend them if your job or sport requires you to sprint. Part of this is learning efficient running mechanics and improving that skill, part of it is learning how to pace yourself for different distances.
My paternal grandfather was the recreational activity director at the Wisconsin State Penitentiary for several decades. From what I’ve heard it can be a pretty rough job. Stay safe!
Drew I have a hard time understanding why doing sprint intervals and gradually decreasing your active rest to the point where you are doing a Tabata type of protocol (20 sec sprint, 10 sec active rest) wouldnt have a positive effect on your total fitness and body comp. Performing your sprints with the same intensity level you perform your strength exercises? When you are strength training, you can only go so fast from one exercise to the next without risking injury or reducing your performance because you are too winded to put forth a good maximal effort. With sprints you can always make it more intense by running faster, adding an incline, reducing your active rest time. I can tell by climbing a couple flights of stairs or running (not jogging) outside at an intense effort level that some level of conditioning is missing from just strength training. Wouldnt you eventually adapt to the condtioning aspect of the strength training as you approached your gentic potential? As the resistance starts to level off, the only other variable is reducing the amount of time between exercise. I am also curious how the aforementioned studies would compare with metabolic type bodyweight strength training (pushups, burpees, mountain climbers, split squats-so called turbulence training?
Hey JT,
Strength training provides the same general conditioning benefits of sprinting along with all of the other general physical benefits possible with exercise, more safely, and more efficiently. If you are already strength training properly you do not need to sprint for any reason other than learning and practicing the skill if it is necessary for your job or sport. If you add sprinting to a proper strength training program it will not increase your general physical benefits and if done long and often enough will interfere with recovery from and adaptation to your workouts.
The difficulty you experience on the stairs says nothing about the conditioning benefits of strength training. If you were to practice climbing stairs so that your skill improved it would become easier.
Proper strength training places even more of a metabolic demand on the body than high-speed, high-rep calisthenics because the muscles are loaded more efficiently and worked more intensely. A proper strength training program would kick the living shit out of a typical calisthenic met-con routine, then feed it’s shit back to it, then kick the shit out of it again, dozens of times over.
Drew,
Coming from a 30 year running/triathlon background ( which now has left me with too much damage to feet , achilles , and knees ) I naturally love doing my six basic HIT exercise workout every weekend . Still though , I would like to incorporate a single TABATA ( 8 repeats ) workout on my Concept 2 machine . I don’t do any other running , swimming , or road biking anymore and simply feel I’d like to add the TABATA to kind of “top off” my training . Can I judiciously give it a try , and if I continue making gains with my strength training assume that the sprints don’t really interfere , but maybe even compliment the weight work ?
I think I already know your answer ,
Michael
Hey Michael,
If you like doing Tabata intervals go ahead and do them, but they’re unnecessary for cardiovascular and metabolic conditioning if you’re already doing proper high intensity training workouts.
Just started HIT. How do I figure out my optimal recovery time? I read the average was 7 days but that it could be much longer or shorter for different people.
Hey Curtis,
It takes some experimentation, and requires you to keep accurate records of workout performance and to make changes and evaluate their effect on performance along with other goal-specific measurements. I cover this in detail in High Intensity Workouts.
One thing that I always think that people over look with cardio isn’t just that it keeps uninformed people in the trap of paying gym memberships they don’t need and paying for personal trainers that tell them to simply do cardio. Think about this. How much is the promotion of running worth to the likes of Nike every year on a global scale? How much do they make from selling running shoes, vests, shorts, drinks bottles and whatever else?
There is a hell of a lot more profit in running than there is in strength training. Sad but true.
Crossfit is probably the closest thing to strength training that sell because it’s “cool” but that is a step in the wrong direction as well. In fact Crossfit for the most part IS another form of cardio and is not efficient muscular loading.
Hey AC,
Profit is definitely a major reason for the continued promotion of “cardio.” The health club industry, the fitness equipment industry, the running apparel and shoe industries, and many more benefit from promoting the belief that one should do “cardio.”
CrossFit‘s draw is the competitive social environment which appeals to many people. It’s a horrible way to exercise, but it’s a source of entertainment and comradery for some which is what keeps them doing it.
How would you respond/deal with a client who requests cardio because they are sold on the idea and love the adrenaline rush? Even tho I know she would more so benefit from strengthening and won’t lose weight anyway because of her diet…
Hey Krystal,
If I already explained why they didn’t need “cardio” and they still insisted I would tell them if they won’t follow my instructions they should find themselves another trainer.
We are taking her heart rate during cardio and during strength training, and it gets just as high with strength training. So her claims that she wants to be less winded during activity doesn’t support the need for cardio either! AND her hips/knees hurt during her cardio. People are funny. It’s hard because my boss also buys into cardio… and I get really bad glares from co workers when I say I hate cardio and they reply very snotty, ” you need both for fitness”.
Thanks for the reply, I am in love with your strength training tips and your use of biomechanics to make things really work and reduce your ability to cheat the time under tension! One of these days I am going to invest in your books, after I read all your blogs first right.
Hey Krystal,
You’re welcome, and I’m glad you’re getting something from the blog 🙂
RIGHT ON! Send them down the road to The Finess Buffet ?
Hey Tom,
Absolutely. Some people simply won’t listen and can’t be taught, and you do not want those people as clients. If they won’t follow your instructions they’re not going to get the results they want, and they’ll blame you instead of accepting responsibility. Those kind of clients are not worth your time or money and are only bad for business in the long run.
How does the HIT paradigm answer the question of me personally also wanting to be able to mow my lawn without breathing heavy, move furniture all day for a friend, or even walk up stairs. Does using HI increase abilities those other tasks, like running a 10K race?
Hey Kent,
Yes, a proper high intensity training program will improve all of the general, trainable factors of functional ability which will improve your ability to perform any other physical activity.
Hey mate, I’ve just purchased your book get ripped and enjoying it. I was wondering in general how many days in between workouts did you allow
Hey Damien,
I only worked out once a week when the photos in that book were taken because I was trying to prove a point about how little exercise was required. The optimal volume and frequency varies between individuals. For more on this I recommend reading Effective Versus Optimal Training Volume and Frequency and my book High Intensity Workouts.
Hi Drew,
I am a avid fan of AJ and have almost all his books, I do train alone and started the big 5 exercises recently, I do supplement peak 8 cardio workouts with a bowflex max trainer the reason I do is because of something Clarence Bass touched on which is especially true I think for people who train without that push from a personal trainer which Dr Ellington has also commented on about people not have a personal trainer to push them, I think the HIT cardio fills that gap, love your work
Bass comments on fast intense HIT workouts for cardio benefit
“Perhaps not, but the question remains whether an appreciable number of people are willing—or able—to push themselves that hard without Arthur or the military driving them to the outer limits of effort, workout after workout. Proper Strength Training may be the most efficient way to build strength and endurance simultaneously—but what difference does it make if serious strength trainers are unwilling to keep doing it. Surely, it isn’t a viable approach for lifetime fitness.”
* * *
“I believe it makes more sense—and is more practical—to rest as long as necessary between sets to exert maximum effort on each strength movement—and then do brief, whole-body, high-intensity intervals or sprints to build and maintain cardiovascular fitness. You can combine the two forms of training or do them in separate workouts. That’s my approach. The details are in my book Take Charge.”
“I agree with Arthur Jones that intensity—not volume—is the key to achieving total fitness, strength and endurance, but I would approach it differently. How you do it is up to you.”
“Jones freely admitted that few people would train as he recommended without his hobnail boots urging them on. He never trained that way for very long.”
Hey Pat,
Clarence is wrong. Over the past twenty years I’ve received e-mails from thousands of people who have read and followed the high intensity training guidelines in my articles and books on their own without the benefit of someone like Arthur Jones pushing them to train hard, and have achieved significant improvements in cardiovascular and metabolic conditioning without having to do separate “cardio” activities. I will write a Q&A to address this in more detail along with some of Clarence’s other comments.
I’m 56 & enjoy HI strength training. My question regarding cardio pertains to a book titled “Younger Next Year” & the theory on exercising every day (for our prehistoric bodies in a modern society) to neurologically ‘trick’ your brain to detect a “growth” signal as opposed to a “decay” signal (to effectively address the 70% of chronic disease we don’t have to experience). Strength training every day is, of course, ill advised & this MD recommends 2 days of strength & 4+ of cardio per week. Could you comment on this? Thanks! Incredible wealth of information on your blog!
Steve H
Hey Steve,
I haven’t read the book, but it sounds like the doctor is really reaching to find a justification for his recommendations. While it doesn’t hurt to engage in light to moderately intense physical activity on a daily basis and there are health benefits to it, it isn’t necessary to do demanding physical activity or exercise (strength train) daily and it isn’t necessary to do any “cardio” if you are already strength training properly.