I recently read an article on a bodybuilding web site about arm training that recommended performing various tricep exercises using both underhand and overhand grips. While different hand positions will have an effect on the involvement of the muscles in the forearms due to differences in the demand on grip and wrist stabilization, they have no significant effect on triceps involvement.
Hand pronation and supination are accomplished by rotation of the radius at the elbow, crossing over the ulna during pronation and returning to a position parallel to the ulna during supination. The triceps, which extend the elbow by pulling on the olecranon process of the ulna, are not affected by this.
You can’t isolate or emphasize the medial, lateral or long heads of your triceps by varying hand position.
What hand position does affect is the strength of the grip, and as a result the safety of the exercise when performed with a relatively heavy weight. When a supine grip is used during tricep extension, the strength of wrist extensors and grip become a limiting factor. You can handle far more weight during elbow extension than wrist extension, and the further the wrists flex as the extensors fatigue, the more difficult gripping becomes due to muscular insufficiency of the wrist/finger flexors and poorer leverage of the thumbs. During either bench or standing tricep extensions with a barbell a failed grip can have disastrous results. None of these problems occur if a pronated grip is used, or if a neutral grip is used with handles designed for it, in which case the handle or part of it is pressed against by the palm or edge of the hand.
Hand position is even more important during pressing exercises which are typically performed with much heavier weight. While the forearms remain parallel to the pull of gravity the bar or handles will be supported by the heels of the palms, but if the elbows are allowed to flex too far, the same problems occur as during extension.
During almost all upper body pressing and tricep exercises, either a pronated or neutral grip should be used. Unlike hand position, the degree of shoulder flexion can have a slight effect on the contribution of the long head of the triceps to elbow extension, since unlike the medial and lateral heads which originate on the humerus and only act on the elbow joint, it originates on the infraglenoid tubercle of the scapula. Extreme shoulder extension should be avoided since it places the long head of the triceps in a position of muscular insufficiency, reducing it’s ability to contribute to elbow extension.
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Good article Drew!
I probably argue this point with other trainers more than anything else. It is amazing how an intelligent person can read for themselves the anatomy and biomechanics of the upper limb and choose to disregard it. Usually, the best comeback is something like, “well, I can feel a difference.”
You said an “intelligent” person!
The kinesiology clearly explains grip has no effect.
I had this discussion on-line and of course the gentleman I was consulting disregarded ALL science and said “I’ll go with what I feel”.
Thank you
Thanks Joseph, I’m glad you like the article.
It is unfortunate so many people calling themselves personal trainers believe such nonsense. They should know better. The author of the article mentioned is actually highly knowledgeable – the recommendation for varying hand position came from the editors of the web site, who are more interested in selling supplements than providing sensible training information.
Drew,
Great Article!
Sincerely,
Craig Murway
I wonder if this is just something where science will eventually play catch up on……(arguing against author’s point)
I would like to hear Dr. J. Antonio’s take on this….
on the other hand it does make sense….. but generally i dont trust those that think answers are “so obvious”. often times with such absolute statements they dig holes that their ego’s couldn’t climb out of to admit they were wrong….
Christian,
If someone proves me wrong on something they are doing me a favor by correcting an error in my thinking and teaching me something. Nobody is omniscient, and if someone’s ego prevents them from admitting their wrong about something they are the ones that lose out.
Totally agree with you guys!
Anatomy comes first, then bio-mechanics.
The feeling when you perform a muscle exercise is a good thing but unfortunately you can not count on it to establish facts like the example in this thread, do you feel more your triceps when you use sup or pro! bio-mechanics is clear about it
That is why most of trainers nowadays holds certificate and not diploma, unfortunately…. why not both hein?
Hey Samy,
Some personal trainer certifications require a bachelors degree in an exercise related field, but even this is not guarantee the trainer will know what they’re doing since much of what is taught by both major certifying agencies and in exercise physiology and physical therapy courses with regards to exercise performance is wrong.
Can you expand on that last point? Exercise science student over here.
Please be more specific. Which statement in particular did you want me to expand on?
Hi Drew,
Very interesting indeed. I have no education in this area but I must say my own experiences in the gym and soreness thereafter had lead me to conclude that hand position was significant in ‘targeting’ the different heads of the triceps. I humbly consider myself corrected on that point after reading your article as your rationale makes good sense to me, and I certainly accept that your formal education trumps my bro-science any day of the week. So where to from here? Is it shoulder position that will allow me to give more stimulus to one triceps head over another? Is it even possible to divert stimulus so masterfully? And is it perhaps that vague anomaly referred to as “mind to muscle” that explains the common belief that “it feels different when I change my hand position”? Some broad musings, I know, but I’m genuinely keen to hear your thoughts as I now re-evaluate my whole approach to training triceps. Sincerely, Josh.
Hey Josh,
Shoulder position has an effect on the length of the long head of the triceps but unless you extend the shoulder far enough to put the long head into a position of active insufficiency there is very little difference, and even if you do perform triceps extensions in this position in the long run it will make little difference to overall triceps development. Many of the things people believe about being able to selectively target specific heads or portions of muscles, or being able to selectively target one of a group of muscles with a shared function are either wrong or greatly exaggerated. A lot of these beliefs probably originated with bodybuilders ignorant of biomechanics making assumptions based on subjective observations of what they felt during certain exercises, or bodybuilding and fitness magazine writers who needed to make something up to fill the pages between supplement advertisements.
Hey Drew & all others interested,
My detailed explanation was considered spammy
Ultimately, being that the long head originates in the Infraglenoid tubercle of scapula and the lateral head on the humerus, it’s the shoulder angle and rotation which determines how the triceps are engaged during extension. However, pronation and supination act as an auxiliary, influencing shoulder position through the humerus being connected to the ulna and the ulna being bound to the radius by the pronator teres and pronator quadratus.
Pronation=internal rotation (laternal head) / Supination=external rotation (long head)
Hey Myron,
The effect of hand position on shoulder angle and rotation is minimal and would have very little effect on the length of the long head of the triceps and the relative involvement of and effect on the different heads of the triceps. Extending the shoulder far enough to cause active insufficiency of the long head can increase the demands the medial and lateral heads somewhat, but even this probably makes little difference in the long run.
Hi Drew,
Place your left hand on your right shoulder with your right arm hanging by your side. Now alternately pronate/supinate your right hand. The rotational effect this has on the shoulder is significant. Now voluntarily contract your triceps at varying points of rotation. You will feel emphasis being placed on different heads of the triceps though they all work in union. Emphasizing different heads of the triceps will stimulate greater strength gains and hypertrophy in those heads respectively. The practical effects and results of this has been known for years and now science can explain it.
The research study: “Best Triceps Exercises” proves the shoulder position theory by measuring muscle activation (EMG) during triceps exercises that require different hand positions.
Sorry Myron, but that’s nonsense.
Differences in hand position make little difference in shoulder position and the relative involvement of the different heads of the triceps. In fact, it is possible to fully supinate and pronate your hand while holding your humerus relatively motionless. Many of the recommendations for varying things like grip or foot position during exercises to target specific heads of a muscle or specific muscles in a group make very little difference to the muscles involved. Also, while EMG can tell you what muscles are involved in an exercise it is a very poor way to determine their relative involvement, especially since most studies use surface EMG instead of implanted electrodes.
In Volume 1, Issue 3 of The Exercise Standard, Second Edition – Fitness Testing: A Multi-Billion Dollar Sham, Ken Hutchins wrote,
“Electromyography is often overrated as a research tool. I volunteered for EMG tests during my stint at Nautilus. Then, I learned that they do indeed have some value, but the caveats are that EMG interpretation is extremely limited when it is performed ideally and probably worthless when performed otherwise.
Ideally, EMG requires the implantation of needle electrodes. Since this is an invasive procedure, an MD is required. Only with needle electrodes can most dermal potential be avoided and specific reading of the desired muscles be obtained. Surface electrodes used by nonmedical researchers produce too much artifact (noise) to the monitor or graph recorder.
Even with an MD competent with EMG, good needle placement, and state-of-the-art reception and display equipment; EMG cannot be used to determine the intensity of muscular contraction. It can, indeed, be sometimes used to distinguish between what muscles are firing AND those that are not firing during a particular movement. Also, some physiatrists use EMG to time nerve transmission speed and, hence, to determine aspects of nerve health. I do not know if this is valid.
I have seen EMG pictured in some of the recent fitness magazines. I want members of the Guild to recognize this as high-tech photographic appeal. It is not indicative of reliable research data collection.”