Thoughts on Ellington Darden’s 30/30/30 Protocol

Sunday at a men’s self-improvement convention in Tampa, FL I was honored to speak right after Ellington Darden, PhD, which was simultaneously exciting and a lot of pressure. For those of you knew to high intensity training who might not recognize the name, Dr. Darden was the director of research for Nautilus Sports/Medical Industries for twenty years during which he helped develop and popularize the machines invented by Arthur Jones, which led to him publishing over fifty books, and being named one of the top ten health leaders in the United States by the President’s Council On Physical Fitness. I first met Dr. Darden at Ken Hutchins SuperSlow Exercise Guild Convention in Maitland, FL in 1995, then after moving to Florida to work with Ken Hutchins was fortunate to have numerous opportunities to observe him training and speak with him about a variety of training and diet related topics. Although I consider Mike Mentzer, Mike Moran, and Ken Hutchins my mentors, Dr. Darden’s writing and our discussions have been very educational and influential, for which I am grateful.

Drew Baye and Ellington Darden, PhD at The 21 Convention in Tampa, FL 2014

His presentation covered the strength training program, diet, and impressive results detailed in his latest book, The Body Fat Breakthrough, and went into a lot of information on negative-only and negative-emphasized training and older research on how the body is capable of increasing muscle mass even while losing fat. Afterwards he answered several questions from the audience about how to perform his 30/30/30 protocol (a 30 second negative, 30 second positive, and 30 second negative) and his dietary guidelines.

Since I’ve had good results with negative-emphasized training I decided to give Ell’s protocol a go using a metronome to keep time, and it is absolutely brutal. Monday’s workout was shrug bar deadlifts, dips, dumbbell bent-over rows, one-legged heel raise with dumbbell, and neck extension and flexion with a harness. While it was easy to start with the negative on dips and heel raises on the UXS and the neck exercises, to get the weight into position for shrug bar deadlifts had to start with the positive, which I did in about three to four seconds. To get the dumbbells into position for the row I set them on a bench, got into position for the row and grabbed them, then stepped back so the bench would be clear of the dumbbells during the exercise.

The shrug bar deadlift was absolutely brutal, doubling my heart rate and leaving me wobbly for a few min afterwards. After the deadlifts I decided I should do the dips without weight, and am glad I did because on the second negative phase I wasn’t trying to lower myself slowly, I was fighting gravity all the way down and ended up only being able to do it in about twenty five seconds instead of the target thirty. The rows were equally challenging, and as I was doing them I noticed I was feeling all of the muscles involved, including my biceps, much more than normal. The burning in my calves during heel raises was torturous. Neck extension and flexion felt more fatiguing, but less irritating to my neck (I sustained minor neck injuries in car accidents in 1995, 2000, and 2006 which cause my neck to stiffen up somewhat if I don’t train it regularly). I have a feeling today’s workout, which includes squats, chin-ups, and presses, is going to be similarly brutal.

If you have a power rack, a better option for 30/30/30 deadlifts would be to load the bar on hooks set a few inches below the top of your range of motion so you can begin with the negative. The same could be done with a barbell for bent-over rows.

For the 30/30/30 overhead press, I plan to set the safety bars just below the bottom of my range of motion so I can squat under the barbell and stand up with it at the top of my range of motion to begin with the negative. For examples of how to do this with a few other exercises read Q&A: Negative-Emphasized Versus Negative-Only Training.

Drew Baye giving a talk on high intensity training at The 21 Convention in Tampa, FL 2014

Considering the results Ell achieved with this protocol compared to his previous fat loss programs, I am starting to doubt my suspicion that more mechanical work is advantageous (so long as the speed is not excessive) and my experiences with negative-emphasized reps seem to support this. I would, however, still like to see a study comparing groups performing a moderate (4/4) and slow (8/8) cadence time-matched for a sixty to eighty second time under load (4/4 x 6-10 reps, and 8/8 x 3-5 reps) to determine what effect, if any, mechanical work has on muscular strength and size increases.

Depending on the outcome it would also be interesting to determine the effects of varying the ratio of positive to negative time under tension. Assuming enough subjects are available they could be randomly assigned to two additional groups with positive and negative emphasized protocols. By reducing one phase of the rep and increasing the other by fifty percent it would be possible to match the groups for both time and work. For example, a positive emphasized 12/4 and a negative emphasized 4/12. Wayne Westcott did something similar to this which I wrote about in Negative Emphasized High Intensity Training, and found the positive and negative emphasized reps (10/4 and 4/10) produced better strength increases in experienced trainees who had hit a plateau than other high intensity training methods like drop sets and forced reps, with the negative-emphasized producing the best results.

I usually don’t get nervous about speaking. When I’ve spoken at high intensity training seminars and conventions in the past my only worry was staying on topic and covering all the points I wanted to make in the allotted time since I have a bad habit of going off on long tangents, but I was nervous going on after Ell Darden. This made staying on topic a bit harder, and I might have even missed a few of the points I wanted to make, but the feedback from the audience after the presentation was great  and one person told me that Bill DeSimone’s talk and mine were “life changing” for him. This year, instead of talking about how to exercise, I talked about how to think about how to exercise, specifically, focusing on the real objective and developing the proper mindset for exercising with a high intensity of effort.

Unfortunately, I was not able to attend Doug McGuff’s, Bill DeSimone’s or James Steele’s presentations, but was glad to finally meet James in person after talking online all these years, and enjoyed talking with him, Bill, Ell, and Eric Daniels, PhD during the break.

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  • Scott M Oct 30, 2014 @ 12:16

    Great post Drew! I’m definitely interested in giving 30/30/30 a try for a few weeks/months.

    Do you think it would work well with Kratos?

    Also, what did Dr. Darden have to say about diet / nutrition?

    Thanks,
    Scott

    • Drew Baye Oct 30, 2014 @ 12:41

      Hey Scott,

      Yes, I think it would. I’ve already experimented with using negative-emphasized repetitions with Project Kratos and plan to give a few more of the bodyweight exercises a try with Ell’s 30/30/30 protocol.

      Ell covered some of the nutritional guidelines in his book, including the importance of adequate carbohydrate and issues with insulin during calorie restriction.

  • ad ligtvoet Oct 30, 2014 @ 13:29

    Hi Drew,
    For a while now I’m using the 3/8 approach (for around 4-6 reps) on most exercises. I like it sofar.
    How do you feel segmentation play in role in the 30-30-30 speed?
    I like to control a rep speed range by feel(with sometimes a control) and focussing on ,say , exactly 30 seconds per phase would disturb me greatly.
    You mentioned a while ago to post a more recent interview with Ryan Hall. Any news about this? I guess there would enough thought provoking ideas about the negative(importance)coming out of such a interview.
    Best wishes,
    ad

    • Drew Baye Oct 31, 2014 @ 14:00

      Hey Ad,

      Segmentation is definitely a concern with extremely slow reps, and if a person can’t do them smoothly they shouldn’t. I just talked with Ryan about this and will be sharing some of his comments in the post I’m writing on this and hopefully interviewing him soon.

  • karthik Oct 30, 2014 @ 14:22

    Congrats Drew! I am sure it was a great speech. Can’t wait to get the DVD.

    • Drew Baye Oct 31, 2014 @ 9:00

      Thanks Karthik,

      I’m looking forward to them as well. I wasn’t able to attend the presentations by Doug McGuff, Bill DeSimone, and James Steele and really want to watch them.

  • John Stchur Oct 30, 2014 @ 20:40

    Drew, when I first heard mention of 30/30/30, I tried it. While it seemed to do a fairly good
    (read time efficient) approach for exercises with a bell or parabolic strength curve and, surprisingly, those with an ascending strength curve, I was frustrated with rows because
    one’s strength diminishes as each rep travels from start to finish (descending curve). The first half of the motion is ridiculously easy with any weight one can use for the ENTIRE motion in a slow, controlled manner. The upper back and rear delts are worked hard, but the arm flexors are short-changed. Just my opinion, but I feel 30/30/30 is much more effective
    with cammed machines that match a particular movement’s strength curve. Sadly, I do not
    have access to such machines . . .

    • Drew Baye Oct 31, 2014 @ 8:59

      Hey John,

      I agree, 30/30/30 reps would probably be easier to do on properly cammed machines. On exercises with an ascending resistance curve like barbell rows I would limit movement to the top half to two-thirds of the range of motion to keep the tension higher. Obviously, this means moving even slower which can be difficult for some people to do smoothly, but solves the problem of underloading the target muscles over the lower part of the ROM.

  • Karthik Oct 31, 2014 @ 2:39

    Dr. Darden has been a great influence in taking HIT to the mainstream pubilc. His projects involving real life people have always produced some fascinating results and could be one of the largest documented numbers in terms of practical application of HIT. However, Dr. Darden has always been a proponent of carbohydrate rich foods and the results he has obtained speak for themselves. In recent years, you have been preaching a high protein, high/ moderate fat and low carb diet. In hindsight, you have also achieved some of your best condition on a high carb diet, as indicated in one of your older posts. What’s your current stand on an optimal diet?

    • Drew Baye Oct 31, 2014 @ 8:56

      Hey Karthik,

      When I started HIT I was very skinny and I was in college and already working two jobs just to pay the bills, so I needed a cheap way to get a lot of calories and rice was an inexpensive way to do this. This does not mean the same approach is optimal for everyone, or that it would work best for me for different goals. I’ve always been the leanest when following more of a Zone style diet, with roughly equal amounts of protein, carbs, and fat.

      People shouldn’t all eat low carb. They shouldn’t all eat high carb, either. They should eat an amount of carbohydrates that allows them to effectively fuel their bodies without gaining fat, and determining this requires some experimentation.

  • James Steele Oct 31, 2014 @ 6:40

    Great to meet in person finally Drew. Sorry we didn’t get the chance to hang out for longer. I’ll definitely let you know if I am ever in your neck of the woods again.

    James

    • Drew Baye Oct 31, 2014 @ 8:47

      Hey James,

      It would have been great to talk more. I’ll let you know if I’m in the UK as well. Anthony and I have talked about having me speak at a convention there or Australia, although I don’t know when it might be.

  • tomas Oct 31, 2014 @ 7:52

    Hey Drew,

    I noticed you’ve been interviewed by Matt Stone for his radio. Will you be posting something about it?

  • Scott M Oct 31, 2014 @ 8:39

    Thanks Drew!

    Very interesting. How do you use the metronome? Setting it to every 5 or 10 seconds I’m guessing?

    Best,
    Scott

    • Drew Baye Oct 31, 2014 @ 8:48

      Hey Scott,

      I set the metronome to 60 beats per minute to allow for accurate cadence counting during normal training, and used this for the 30/30/30 reps as well.

  • Craig Oct 31, 2014 @ 11:10

    Drew,

    Did Dr. Darden talk at all about the differences between 30-30-30 and X-Force? The former is negative emphasis, more TUL on the eccentric at constant load, whereas the latter is hyper-loaded eccentrics, more load on the negative. I see no reason why the protocols should necessarily produce equivalent results. Yet most of the studies in the book appear to have been done with X Force, while all the buzz seems to revolve around 30-30-30. Don’t we really need a head to head comparison of the two training methods???

    • Drew Baye Oct 31, 2014 @ 13:59

      Hey Craig,

      Yes, he did, and explained how he decided on 30/30/30 for those who didn’t have access to X-Force. I’ve been talking with Ryan Hall about this for a while, and it seems like negative emphasized reps would work just as well (same or higher negative to positive ratio) and may be more practical for many exercises. I will be covering this in more detail in another article.

  • John Stchur Oct 31, 2014 @ 11:51

    Drew, if I were to divide my rows into a bottom-half set and a top-half set, still using the 30/30/30 concept, would I go 15/15/15 for each? Would that be enough?
    Incidentally, I am using a curl grip on a pulley handle that resembles the cambered portion of an EZ curl bar. I have found that this also works the wrist flexors so well that it seems I have no need of wrist curls (although I still do wrist extensions). Biceps and brachialis are
    worked thoroughly, too . . . but not so much the brachioradialis. I do a 20 sec static hold in the top position of a hammer curl for them.
    By the way, we are in Senoia, GA right now, helping our daughter following the birth of
    her son — grandchild number ten (!!!!) for us and hopefully the end. Reason I tell you is that Senia is where they do most of the filming of The Walking Dead series. They are filming right now.

    • Drew Baye Oct 31, 2014 @ 13:58

      Hey John,

      It may be more practical to simply perform regular negative emphasized repetitions on exercises that don’t lend themselves to extremely slow reps, but dividing the range of motion into hard and easy halves and doing one 15/15/15 rep in each of those might work better than a single 30/30/30 rep over the full range. I’m not sure it makes that much of a difference.

      Congrats on the new grandchild, and have fun in GA. Wish I could come up there and be an extra on the show, my wife and I love watching The Walking Dead.

  • Bob Mar 6, 2020 @ 13:10

    Hi Drew,

    Was searching for more information on Dr Dardens program in T-Nation, which appears to be a slight modification of the 30-30-30 described here. The program in T-nation is 30-10-30 (with the 10 being 10 reps). Any experience with that?

    Also, how do you program your training (lifting) along with someone who is active on off days? For example, I weigh train three times a week, but play a sport on the off days. My thinking is that the weight training supports what I do in the sport.

    Thanks for all you do!

    • Drew Baye Mar 7, 2020 @ 17:38

      I have not read Ell’s new book, but from what I have heard he recommends performing the 10 reps at a 1/2 cadence, which is way too fast. I do not recommend it.

      How a workout program should be designed around other physical activities depends on a lot of factors, including their type, intensity, duration, and frequency, the individual tolerance and recovery ability, the short and long term goals, and many other things that vary between individuals. The workouts and other goal specific measurements need to be tracked to allow experimentation and adjustment.

      If you’d like to learn more about this I cover it in several videos in the private group for HIT List members.